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Conversation with Governor Tim Pawlenty

By Mark Hoffman

March 31, 2008
San Francisco International Airport

When I arrive at terminal 1, the hallway is almost deserted. Four men are negotiating with the Sun Country staff. They can't get a first class seat. I immediately recognize the tallest of the men as Governor Tim Pawlenty and try my best not to stare. I think about approaching, but decide not to. I can't think of anything substantive to say, and I don't want to throw myself at him like a star struck fan. The Governor walks away with his entourage. I go through security and run into my colleagues David Leon and Jorge Rivas. I ask for their advice. Both suggest giving him the paper. I find a copy in my backpack and look through it to see if there are any personal attacks against Pawlenty. The closest call is a line in which I liken a McCain-Pawlenty ticket to a "biopolitical monstrosity." I decide that, while extreme, this lapse into academic hyperbole is neither personal nor partisan. I resolve to offer Gov. Pawlenty the paper if I see him again. The chances of that are slim, I realize, as he's probably found another flight by now. I'm disappointed with myself for tempting fate. I mean, what are the chances of this?! The Governor of Minnesota, the VP hopeful, the immigration czar, and, most importantly, the object of my study, the central figure in my story, here, at the airport, in San Francisco, the day after I present on his policies. Unbelievable.  

About an hour later he passes by the bar where I'm "studying." He stops to check the Twins score, thanks his SF host, an older man in a suit, and walks to the gate. I pay my bill and follow him at a safe distance. He buys a salad at a nearby kiosk and sits down with his crew. I move towards him as he picks olives off his salad. I'm determined now, and emboldened by the spirits. I pause to ask his bodyguard for permission to approach, but my momentum pushes me past him. I smile innocently as I walk on by.

1st exchange:

Hoffman: "Governor Pawlenty?"

Gov. Pawlenty: "Yes."

We exchange a friendly handshake. (I think it was friendly. I've mostly repressed the trauma of the initial exchange.)

Hoffman: "Hi, I'm Mark Hoffman. I'm a graduate student at the University of Minnesota."

Gov. Pawlenty: "What brings you to San Francisco, Mark?"

Hoffman: "I just came from the International Assoc. associ."

I stumble over the word "Association."

Hoffman: "I just came the International Studies annual conference where I presented a paper on two of your recent executive orders."

Gov. Pawlenty: "Which ones?"

He's busy purging his salad. Apparently, he has a very strong aversion to black olives.

Hoffman: "The ones you issued on January 7th of this year...on immigration."

Gov. Pawlenty: "Do you have a copy of the paper there?"

Hoffman: "I do. Right here."

I nervously hand him the paper and offer a mini pre-emptive apologia:
Hoffman: "It's still in a preliminary stage. And it's critical, but not at all personal."

Gov. Pawlenty: "That's why we have a democracy."

He repeats this, "with difference," several times, in a friendly, matter-of-fact tone.

Hoffman: "I realize you're very busy and probably won't have time to read it, but I would regret it forever if I didn't take this opportunity to give it to you. I would, of course, be curious to hear your thoughts on it."

Gov. Pawlenty: "Well we have a three hour flight. I'll read it and we'll talk about it afterwards."

At this point one of his men interrupts to say that 2 first class seats have opened up. I thank the Gov. with as much polite diplomacy as I can muster, and walk away. On the way out of his inner-circle, I pat one of his people on the shoulder and smile. I'm totally high on being close to power.

***

After a two-hour delay, during which I catch an occasional glimpse of the Governor reading my paper on the other side of the room, they announce the commencement of the boarding process. Pawlenty boards first (before the women, children, disabled and first class passengers). I board with the first wave of coach passengers (the ones seated at the back of the plane.) I find him seated awkwardly in the first row of coach. Apparently, it's the best they could do.

2nd exchange:

Feeling that something simply must be said, I quip: "Well, at least the Twins won."

Gov. Pawlenty: "Oh did they?"

Hoffman: "Yes, 3-2."

As I begin to walk past him, he raises his hand to stop me.

Gov. Pawlenty: "Hey... I read your paper."

I'm shocked and speechless. I sit down in the seat across the aisle from him. I don't think to deploy the "talking-across-the-aisle" metaphor until it's far too late.

Gov. Pawlenty: "There's a lot going on there. I can tell that you've thought about this a lot." To his credit, there is very little hint of diplomatic condescension in his voice. He seems genuinely interested. He continues: "I wanted to ask you.... what do you think the solution to this should be?"

Hoffman: [Haltingly] "Well, that's a good question. To be honest, I'm more concerned about how this fits into a broader discourse. A national and global discourse. And I'm an academic, so I'm kind of in the privileged position of not having to think of solutions. I'm not in public, political life. I'm not a policymaker like you."

I think of all the best responses later on, but at the moment I'm just happy to be speaking in full sentences. He offers an ostensibly indisputable provocation.

Gov. Pawlenty: "Yes, well, one of the things I keep saying in my speeches is that this has to be legal. Everyone in this country is an immigrant or related to an immigrant. [I think the implication here is that he is NOT "anti-immigrant," as I suggest, polemically, in my paper.]  So all I'm saying is this has to be done legally, because when people break the law, it has a corrosive effect on [the legal order], on society. And we can't have that."

The legal order is at stake! Amazing. He's reciting lines from the playbook. He's rehearsing. I try my best, but in vain, to derail him, to get him "off message."

Hoffman: "Yeah I understand that point I guess. I think what I'm trying to work out is how the law affects different people differently. How it functions to exclude some people and to include others. And how historically it has functioned to exclude certain groups of people and not others. In particular, you can see that in the history of U.S. immigration policy, the law has always functioned to exclude non-European peoples. And now it's the so-called "third-world" immigrant that's marked as a kind of permanent outsider. And particularly Latinos and African imm..."

Gov. Pawlenty interrupts and changes the subject.

Gov. Pawlenty: "Yeah well, as I'm sure you're aware, I've been a promoter of the H2b Visas that actually bring in highly skilled workers from places like India. Because if you look at the numbers, there are literally not enough people to fill these jobs. We need these people."

Hoffman: "Well yes, that's true. There's a demand for these people. The H2b visa, given that it's about high-skilled labor, that's kind of a different animal than what I'm writing about in the paper. But I still think those visas are interesting. Especially given how they've been labeled part of a guest-worker program. Do you see them as part of a guest-worker program?"

Gov. Pawlenty pauses and looks pensive, as if this is the first time he's heard the term guest-worker.

Gov. Pawlenty: "Well, now that I think about it, I guess I would consider them a guest-worker program, yes."

I try to keep it honest, but I can hear the phony confusion in my voice.

Hoffman: "Well that's interesting, because even people like Pat Buchanan, who are considered to be far to the right on the issue of immigration, even he thinks these kinds of programs create a two-tiered society where some people are granted all the benefits and rights of citizenship and others are valued only as workers. Other communities are vulnerable, they have no job security, and they can be excluded at any time. They are valuable insofar as they are exploitable."

Gov. Pawlenty nods, takes the point (or doesn't, I can't tell), and moves on.

Gov. Pawlenty: "Yeah, OH, I see what you're saying... So is this going to be part of a dissertation project?"

I balk at this.

Hoffman: "It actually started as a project on France. Now I'd like it to be a comparative study of the U.S. and France."

Gov. Pawlenty: "Well, that should be interesting. France and other European countries are interesting examples because they are so LIBERAL on these issues."

Hoffman: "Well, France is interesting as a postcolonial space. Of course, Algeria was part of France..."

I briefly explain the history of French colonialism and migration, trying, where possible, to explain how U.S. immigration policy bears a striking resemblance to the colonial policies of "old Europe." He nods, feigning interest, and betraying ignorance.

Hoffman: "But I still think there are some interesting connections between the U.S. and France on immigration, in particular with respect to the exploitation of labor imported from other countries..."

He interrupts, growing impatient: "Have you looked at all at the case of Toronto? There's a place where immigrant labor is increasing to the point where the number of immigrants is exceeding the number of native residents..."

I'm not sure what he's implying. I realize later that I should have asked him why he thought Toronto was an interesting case.

Hoffman: "That's interesting. It reminds me of what a lot of people are saying about places like L.A. I think that demographic change is causing a lot of racialized anxiety in places like that."

I want to pursue this point, but the plane is filling quickly, and both of us anticipate my getting booted to seat 28d. Gov. Pawlenty gives me an out, saving me the embarrassment of a stewardess intervention.

Gov. Pawlenty: "Well, good luck with your paper, I know we probably don't agree about a lot of this, but I can tell you put a lot of time and thought into it."

Hoffman: "Thank you, Governor. I appreciate your comments very much."

Gov. Pawlenty: "Do you need this copy back, or can I keep it?"

Hoffman: "Nope, I don't need it. You can have it. And if you want to talk more, my info. is on there. This is all still very preliminary..."

I feel silly suggesting that he might want my advice, but I can't think of anything else to say. I stand and begin the long walk to the back of the plane. He stops me once more.

Gov. Pawlenty: [emphatically] "You know, ultimately, I think this problem is too big for local government. Ultimately I think the Feds. are gonna have to take this on."

I wish he had said that earlier. I would have been able to say something about how it was dangerous to let "the Feds" take control of this. How that would contribute to a militarization process that ought to be avoided. How the ICE raids in Worthington and Austin had destroyed families and communities, circumvented protocols of due process and democratic deliberation, violated human rights, and undercut local economies. I'm tempted to ask if he thinks he might lead that Federal effort (as VP), but I censor myself. (I regret this now.) He continues, with the first hint of condescension.

Gov. Pawlenty: "You use a lot of big words."

I laugh.

Hoffman: "Yeah, in graduate school they sometimes encourage that. It's kind of an initiation, a rite of passage."

He chuckles. His older companion laughs heartily. I shake Gov. Pawlenty's hand and thank him again.

Hoffman: "Thanks, and go Twins, eh?"

Gov. Pawlenty: "Yes!"

Mark N. Hoffman is a doctoral student in Political Science at the University of Minnesota. His current research examines practices of national security, nation-building, and border control in the North America and Europe. His dissertation compares the neo-colonial aspects of border politics and immigration policy in the U.S. and France. Among other articles, he is a co-author of the 3-part "Becoming Imperialist" series published by Counterpunch.org.

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